Poll..Graupner 10x5 or Stock Solo Props?

[J R]

I would have already tried them but the hassle of doing the mod is not worth it to me.

Thanks Z! I found them. I think I'll wait and see how things go for Roland but I've printed out your note so I'm ready to roll!

Jerry

 

[J R]

I'll tell you tomorrow.

Thanks Roland! I hope your tests tomorrow are successful.

Jerry

 

[RolandS888]

Well I flew for a short time on the 11x4.5 props, they werent the APCs, I didnt want to hack those too much to fit the motors, so for now Im using some cheap Turnigy carbon/nylon 11x4.5s that are reamed to 8mm, sanded the hubs thinner , and rebalanced to fit the stock motors. They are fixed in place with a M6 LH / RH nut.
Its getting windy here and there is a storm coming so I only did a short flight. (frankly I dont trust my hacked props either)
I was surprised to see hover current in the 12 to 14 amp range in hover instead of 18 to 19 amps.
I expected a bit of a reduction, but not ~ 30%. (shows that the stock props arent great)
Props were noticably slower and quieter, all I did was hover, I wont be pushing these props they are too fragile. But as per the stock props I would expect the current to reduce further in flight as solo uses less current when in motion.
But of course theres always a compromise, and the yaw authority was significantly reduced because the props are spinning slower. Altitude hold wasnt as good as with the stock props (less thrust authority) but as I said it was a quite windy.
This is done solely for efficency and longer flight times, Im sure it would also compromise stable flight characteristics, and wouldnt be a great combination for filming. But this is all a work in progress and we'll reach a happy medium somewhere.

Id like to try the APC 10x4.5 MR (ST) props, I think they would go well. An 11x4.5 prop is just a bit too big in my opinion. Although the long range guys might go for the 11" props to add to their flight time if strict yaw control is not a concern.
I am sure the Solo could handle the 11" props well once tuned, it looks to be tuned for the stock props, no surprizes there. I know nothing about tuning pixhawks (I dont even know if Solos PXv2 can have its config changed. Can it? If so point me to a tutorial)
For that reason Id like to see the APC 10x4.5MR(ST) on a solo, I think it would be a good combination that is very close to the stock props, but way more efficent.
20 minute+ flight times should be possible if the craft is kept moving, and longer times on the 11" props.

FYI, On take off, Solo popped up to 2 meters like usual and stayed there so that height is based on the flight controllers baro/GPS, not purely thrust and throttle position.

When my motor pods arrive I'll strip one down and get it running on the thrust tester for some decent figures for different motor/prop combos.

 

[Jubalr]

Well I flew for a short time on the 11x4.5 props, they werent the APCs, I didnt want to hack those too much to fit the motors, so for now Im using some cheap Turnigy carbon/nylon 11x4.5s that are reamed to 8mm, sanded the hubs thinner , and rebalanced to fit the stock motors. They are fixed in place with a M6 LH / RH nut.
Its getting windy here and there is a storm coming so I only did a short flight. (frankly I dont trust my hacked props either)
I was surprised to see hover current in the 12 to 14 amp range in hover instead of 18 to 19 amps.
I expected a bit of a reduction, but not ~ 30%. (shows that the stock props arent great)
Props were noticably slower and quieter, all I did was hover, I wont be pushing these props they are too fragile. But as per the stock props I would expect the current to reduce further in flight as solo uses less current when in motion.
But of course theres always a compromise, and the yaw authority was significantly reduced because the props are spinning slower. Altitude hold wasnt as good as with the stock props (less thrust authority) but as I said it was a quite windy.
This is done solely for efficency and longer flight times, Im sure it would also compromise stable flight characteristics, and wouldnt be a great combination for filming. But this is all a work in progress and we'll reach a happy medium somewhere.

Id like to try the APC 10x4.5 MR (ST) props, I think they would go well. An 11x4.5 prop is just a bit too big in my opinion. Although the long range guys might go for the 11" props to add to their flight time if strict yaw control is not a concern.
I am sure the Solo could handle the 11" props well once tuned, it looks to be tuned for the stock props, no surprizes there. I know nothing about tuning pixhawks (I dont even know if Solos PXv2 can have its config changed. Can it? If so point me to a tutorial)
For that reason Id like to see the APC 10x4.5MR(ST) on a solo, I think it would be a good combination that is very close to the stock props, but way more efficent.
20 minute+ flight times should be possible if the craft is kept moving, and longer times on the 11" props.

FYI, On take off, Solo popped up to 2 meters like usual and stayed there so that height is based on the flight controllers baro/GPS, not purely thrust and throttle position.

When my motor pods arrive I'll strip one down and get it running on the thrust tester for some decent figures for different motor/prop combos.

Thanks for the great write up! I ordered a set of APC 10x4.5 MR a couple of days ago. I look forward to testing them.

 

[z-axis]

Roland -- thanks indeed for that great write-up. It was chock full of great info and gives us all a great point of reference for our own testing.

I am sure the Solo could handle the 11" props well once tuned, it looks to be tuned for the stock props, no surprizes there. I know nothing about tuning pixhawks (I dont even know if Solos PXv2 can have its config changed. Can it? If so point me to a tutorial)
.
FYI, On take off, Solo popped up to 2 meters like usual and stayed there so that height is based on the flight controllers baro/GPS, not purely thrust and throttle position.
.

You can tune the PH via Mission Planner -- your best bet though would be to AutoTune via Tower, as this takes all the guesswork out of PIDs.

I am going to be really interested to hear when others get their new APC ST sets on and can post their findings. This is getting cool!

 

[Samphoto]

I have

The stock props are softer than the Graupners and will provide a little damping in flight which is probably desirable. This is usually at the expense of efficiency, but if the Graupners cant do any better than the stock props in current draw (ie lower current) then I see no reason to change them.
A more efficient prop (using less power to acheive the same thrust) will also be quieter as it isnt thrashing the air as much.
I have seen some good numbers using APC MR and Mejzlik MR props whilst testing motor/prop combos on a thrust tester, certainly better than Graupners.
Graupners E-props were really good years ago when there werent the options for multirotors that there are now, they are still a good electric prop, one of the best, but nothing special for MR use. Graupner have now come out with their C-Prop for MRs which is very close in style to the stock Solo (and Ph) prop, but the efficency numbers are nothing special.
For gains in efficiency (lower power use, longer flight times, quieter) I'd be looking at trying APC 10x4.5 MR as the most cost effective alternative, (Mejzs are too expensive) then probably a motor change.
Also, the current you are seeing (around 18-19 amps) is hover current, the Solo current draw will reduce when in flight. I read the sweet spot is 6m/s, and whilst playing around with this I have seen my current draw down around 14 amps in level flight.
I do beleive 3DRs claim of 20 min flight times on 5200mAH is possible, but it isnt in a hover which is how most people gauge flight time.
That is how we are going to acheive longer flights - keep it moving.

I have experienced exactly that. When I'm flying orbits for example, the flight times are longer. I wondered why, thanks for the answer.

 

[fpvsteve]

I fly Graupner 11x5. Max size to fit on Solo.
About 1.5A less amp draw in flight resulting im longer flight time.
Less loise due to lower rpm compared to 3DR stock.
Solo reacts a bit more direct to stick controls due to the stiffer props.
Video slightly better. But also with stock I get good results.

 

[CPurdue]

I also have the 11x5's now. Just got them but haven't had a chance to fly yet. They were very well balanced out of the box. 2 were perfect and the other 2 only needed very small pieces of scotch tape. I'm going to do a hover test and compare them vs the stock props.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[z-axis]

Okay guys, I just ordered two sets of APC 10x4.5 MR ST.
For those of you who already have them, what do you think?

 

[Jubalr]

Okay guys, I just ordered two sets of APfit. 0x4.5 MR ST.
For those of you who already have them, what do you think?

Hey z, wish I had seen this earlier. I just got in a set of the St but they don't fit. The studs on the Solo are too short and don't reach the nuts. Perhaps you can cancel?

 

[J R]

Hey z, wish I had seen this earlier. I just got in a set of the St but they don't fit. The studs on the Solo are too short and don't reach the nuts. Perhaps you can cancel?

Jubalr,

Same here. I didn't want to say anything, felt a little stupid. Thought about milling them down but there wouldn't be enough meat left on them. Live and learn.

Jerry

 

[z-axis]

Jubalr,

Same here. I didn't want to say anything, felt a little stupid. Thought about milling them down but there wouldn't be enough meat left on them. Live and learn.

Jerry

Mine should arrive today or tomorrow.
There is a nice thread on the use of APCs over on the Mod Club:
Log into Facebook | Facebook

It boils down to:
- It sounds like the do work better than the stock props. Not surprising to me as I've always been a fan of composites vs the softer props or carbon. Why? Check this pic:

- You have to ream a little from the bottom using a 5/16" bit (8mm) or prop reamer to allow the prop adapter threads to meet the nut. Actually ended up needing to cut just a millimeter or two extra at 10mm to get prop to sit fully on motor.

 

[J R]

Mine should arrive today or tomorrow.

Z,

I don't have FB so I can't check it out. Email is tough enough for me!

I'll be real interested to see how you make out. I just don't see enough material to take out and retain integrity in the prop. Hopefully, you'll have a better perspective. I'd love to give them a shot.

Jerry

 

[RolandS888]

Yeah, not on FB here either, Mod Club is a private group, tried to join now, we'll see how that goes.
Would love to know whats going on tho.
And that is not a true pic of blade flex, its the camera makes it look bent. If you go by that pic, one of the blades is detached.

 

[z-axis]

^^ indeed, RolandS888. But they are really flexy

Jerry: I'm working with APC as we speak to get solo-compatible MR ST props made.
I should have a prototype in a few days and will report back once I've flown them.

 

[RolandS888]

Awesome, Im all ears.

 

[J R]

Jerry: I'm working with APC as we speak to get solo-compatible MR ST props made.
I should have a prototype in a few days and will report back once I've flown them.

Super cool Z! I'll look forward to hearing your reviews and getting a few sets in my hands!

Thanks, Man!

Jerry

 

[z-axis]

APC Props for Solo:

I've been working directly with APC to make their 10x4.5 MR (ST) props fit better on the Solo. These changes will be available in early 2016. Primary differences will be:

- Through hole increased to 8.3 mm to fit over prop adapter
- Prop nut will be press fit (vs loose) and 1.5 mm deeper in the prop for better thread engagement
- Possibly use custom aluminum nuts vs zinc.

I have hacked up a working set right now and I love them. Much less wobble and much more power, and, interestingly, when in Stabilize, hover is at throttle mid detent vs having to always push it up to ~65-70%. I took a video of this raw test (no prop balancing, no post production) and will try to get it posted.

But mostly I just wanted to let y'all know that this is in the works. I'm totally excited.

 

[Miles.Prestwood]

In for some results. I just got my solo a few weeks ago, and broken a few props. The factory prop are 'nice' but I knew there had to be something better and maybe even a little less expensive.

I like what you guys have done so far and hope to join in on improvements.

 

[z-axis]

Great news! I've tested two sets of 10x4.5 APC prototypes and APC is going to be selling them starting in February. For now, they will have silver only zinc nuts but will later replace them with aluminum silver and black anodized nuts. They will be sold as a set of 4 (2 CW and 2CCW) only.

The flying with them has been awesome. They are much more powerful, sound better, and my video is smoother for sure. And I've not even balanced them yet.
I'm about to be out of the country until the end of the month (beach vacation in Mexico) and will be filming there with them. So if I don't reply here it's cuz I'm having a blast and will check in when I return.

I might try to post a video but might not have time before I leave.
-z